Curse

Tirzan · Apr 19, 2011, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I think I'm near to reaching the perfection with my 7 heroes build (obviously for my playing style!). Just need your opinion on few skills.
First of all thanks @Khomet for the Volley paragon idea:

Here's my questions:
1. on bar Hero 7 i have some doubts on Vigorous Spirit and Dwayna's Kiss (due to all the Hex removals on team
2. on bar Hero 6: Overload, good or not? How can I replace it?
3. on bar Hero 5: Resto or Prots? Build have no prots, do you think are necessary? Most times SY, TntF and Panic do their job, only few bosses hit hard whole team.

LifeInfusion · Apr 19, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

By definition SY and TNTF are prots. Not active prots, but prots nonetheless.

TNTF reduces 30% = ~+24 armor ; SY +100Armor or ~ -82% from all non armor ignoring.

D-Kiss is good even without hexes: you have orders firstly. What else can you put?
* Ethereal Light? It gets used when they are under wand damage. Healing Whisper? Half range and they spam it. Patient Spirit results in overheal on heroes generally.

Overload is iffy: it's one of the skills heroes like to spam. It also has conditional usefulness when you have Panic.

AndrewSX · Apr 19, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

First of all, seems very solid, nice job. I've never played Para/paraway so i can't say anything about that, but cause your questions are about last 3 heroes, let's see....

hero 7: stick with dwayna. its really nice when ench/hexes stack on a single target, and if this happens, that powerful heal will defintely help. D sorrow is intented to go on minions, so should be fine. Vig spirit-well, cause your main dmg source is a volley/spear spam, it will be useful on top 4 team members: if worth that slot is up to you and situations. Tbh, the only problem i see is Sig of rejuvenation(prolly hero won't use it well enough to trigger extra heal).

hero 6:aah, i recall a entire thread about how good overload is on heroes....nice cover hex for panic and fuel for unnatural, but seems all in this bar. I'd repalce it for the only thing you miss-ench removal. Kill a guy with protters around (damn shiverpeaks protectors!-for example) can be frustrating. shatter ench(that got a buff recently too) is a good replacement imo.

hero 5: imo, u should save some spots for variations depending from areas. And the MM is one of the best. Keep that 3 skill slots open to resto(always welcome)/prots(with adren-denial)/chan(2nd splinter=gg)/command(let minions run!)/curses(again, ench removal+debuff) and anything u need.

My 2 cents.

Edit: ninja'd on a couple of things :P

Captain Bulldozer · Apr 19, 2011, 09:44 PM // 21:44

A few general comments:

1. Your team lacks good hex removal. This may or may not be a problem, depending on how well you're panicking and where you are.

2. I'd go with Jagged Bones over AotL, for a better recharge time.

3. Overload is a great skill, but will be used badly with this team. It works best as a cheap spammable cover hex that also packs a punch. Combining it with panic causes it to become a lot less effective however, and you have no real need of foes being hexed (if you were running discord on the other hand...)

4. The monk (hero #7) can probably be much better... I'd drop skills 1, 3, 4, and 8 and use some nicer stuff (throw in some prots like Aegis for example). Divert Hexes would be a decent choice (if you need the hex removal). You probably don't want a team build these days that has no prot spirit (at least if you plan on doing some HM) even if you run SY and TNtF. It might even be a good idea to take out the monk entirely and run an ER proting E/Mo instead.

Good hunting.

Luvie · Apr 19, 2011, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

A few general comments:

1. Your team lacks good hex removal. This may or may not be a problem, depending on how well you're panicking and where you are.

*Stares at hero 3* Wait what? Isn't hex eater signet+expel hexes+that anti hex chant thingy enough? :/

Icy The Mage · Apr 20, 2011, 02:37 AM // 02:37

If you plan on doing any HM at all I would recommend a prot spirit in there somewhere, and I would rework that Monk bar if I was you, it doesn't look very good in my opinion. Other than that, everything else I wanted to say has been said :P

Life Bringing · Apr 20, 2011, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Death nova on a healer bar generally doesnt work out so well. In my experience, heroes will prioritize Death Nova on low hp targets rather than heals.

Captain Bulldozer · Apr 20, 2011, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvie

*Stares at hero 3* Wait what? Isn't hex eater signet+expel hexes+that anti hex chant thingy enough? :/

You'll note I didn't say "lacks hex removal."

Hex eater sig is a TOUCH signet with a TWENTY FIVE second recharge, (I'm choosing the emphasize the bad here), Hex Breaker Aria only works on the next SPELL only and expel hexes is a wasted elite when you could run a monk with divert hexes to de-hex, de-condition AND heal at a lower recharge.

Some more comments for the OP:

* Your rez skills are all 5 second casts... you might wanna miz it up a bit with something quicker like Flesh of My Flesh.

* You have too much hex removal, not enough GOOD hex removal. Most areas hexes are not problematic, so one or two decent hex removal skills should be enough.

* Life Brings up a good point... death nova + heals doesn't work out so well. Might wanna go with some prots on a Minion Bomber instead, as for whatever reason the AI seems to treat those differently from heals and will often prot over Death nova (in my experience)...

* The more I look at this team, the more I feel like you're lacking sufficient offense. Seems like you'd be relying mostly on minions/bombs and spirits (with the occasional volley thrown in) to do most of the damage. Maybe that's enough though... I usually try to pack more of a punch myself.

Tirzan · Apr 20, 2011, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

First of all, seems very solid, nice

Thx. About your suggestions, i'll try Shatter Enchantment instead of Overload and look out for a replacement for Signet of Rejuvenation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

1. Your team lacks good hex removal. This may or may not be a problem, depending on how well you're panicking and where you are.

I really feel good with my hex removals (4 skills).

Quote:

2. I'd go with Jagged Bones over AotL, for a better recharge time.

it's worth a try and i'll let you know how it work.

Quote:

4. The monk (hero #7) can probably be much better... I'd drop skills 1, 3, 4, and 8 and use some nicer stuff (throw in some prots like Aegis for example). Divert Hexes would be a decent choice (if you need the hex removal). You probably don't want a team build these days that has no prot spirit (at least if you plan on doing some HM) even if you run SY and TNtF. It might even be a good idea to take out the monk entirely and run an ER proting E/Mo instead.

i'm not planning to completely change the monk's bar, it makes a great job. I'll try to' repliche a couple of skills like signet and vigorous. Healing brut is awesome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy The Mage

If you plan on doing any HM at all I would recommend a prot spirit in there somewhere, and I would rework that Monk bar if I was you, it doesn't look very good in my opinion. Other than that, everything else I wanted to say has been said :P

Already did HM and the build worked very well. Any idea on how change monk, but keeping it a healer and not an hybrid?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Death nova on a healer bar generally doesnt work out so well. In my experience, heroes will prioritize Death Nova on low hp targets rather than heals.

You're not the girst one saying that...i'll keep an eye on my Livia and see how she uses skills

AndrewSX · Apr 20, 2011, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirzan

Already did HM and the build worked very well. Any idea on how change monk, but keeping it a healer and not an hybrid?

The first thing that comes to my mind is change from Hburst to UA. Most powerful res in the game, and still provide a decent amount of team/spot heals.

Other options could be WoH, HBoon.....and not so much else. Hero monks needs someting mindless, stuff like ZB isn't good choice(and extra heal fromw WoH isn't triggered so often).

Tirzan · Apr 20, 2011, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Other options could be WoH, HBoon.....and not so much else. Hero monks needs someting mindless, stuff like ZB isn't good choice(and extra heal fromw WoH isn't triggered so often).

already tried both HB and UA, I like the last one, but i've found Burst is really powerful and is one of the untouchable skills on my monk's bar.

Coast · Apr 20, 2011, 11:01 AM // 11:01

recuce markmanship and increase command/motivation

Tirzan · Apr 20, 2011, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Hex eater sig is a TOUCH signet with a TWENTY FIVE second recharge, (I'm choosing the emphasize the bad here), Hex Breaker Aria only works on the next SPELL only and expel hexes is a wasted elite when you could run a monk with divert hexes to de-hex, de-condition AND heal at a lower recharge.

Hex Eater Signet works quite well as hex removal + energy management, but i will try a variant with Divert Hexes.

Quote:

* Your rez skills are all 5 second casts... you might wanna miz it up a bit with something quicker like Flesh of My Flesh.

Mesmer has Resurrection Chant, a 3,78s res with FC 10.

Quote:

* Life Brings up a good point... death nova + heals doesn't work out so well. Might wanna go with some prots on a Minion Bomber instead, as for whatever reason the AI seems to treat those differently from heals and will often prot over Death nova (in my experience)...

like i said above i'm gonna try prots on MM

Quote:

* The more I look at this team, the more I feel like you're lacking sufficient offense. Seems like you'd be relying mostly on minions/bombs and spirits (with the occasional volley thrown in) to do most of the damage. Maybe that's enough though... I usually try to pack more of a punch myself.

trust me, damage is not a problem, paras provide a great amount of damage, enemies go down quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

recuce markmanship and increase command/motivation

nah, volley paras are perfect this way, no need to change them

Gard · Apr 20, 2011, 12:33 PM // 12:33

You might want to divide the hex removal more throughout your team. Basically, if your P/Me dies, your screwed (Hexwise) because you will only have Cure Hex.

SongOf · Apr 20, 2011, 05:15 PM // 17:15

1. Swap Expel Hexes for Empathic Removal (5e, attributeless, x2 hex&condition removal, low recharge)

2. Drop Hex Eater Signet from the para. Redistribute points and add whatever skill.

3. Drop Resurrect Chant from mesmer and replace with Hex Eater Signet. Works in your favor since you already have points invested in Inspiration. Some might even argue 3 hex removal on 3 seperate characters is overkill.

Also, Signet of Return is one of the few good res skills, 3 copies run on your highest armored party members is the perfect amount of res, no need for 4 reses.

Regarding prot, I don't have a para character so if you say SY+TntF+Panic does the job for you, then that's all that matters. Personally, I would drop the rit skills on the MM and add Aegis, Prot Spirit and Guardian. Then I would replace the monk with a N/Rt and add back the rit healing skills, plus Life/Rejuvenation for passive party heals, or even Weapon of Warding for regen/anti-melee.

Having addressed the hex removal/healing stuff, Overload IS a good skill, but you already have enough damage output to swap it for anything.

hunter · Apr 20, 2011, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirzan

I think I'm near to reaching the perfection with my 7 heroes build (obviously for my playing style!). Just need your opinion on few skills.
First of all thanks @Khomet for the Volley paragon idea:

Here's my questions:
1. on bar Hero 7 i have some doubts on Vigorous Spirit and Dwayna's Kiss (due to all the Hex removals on team
2. on bar Hero 6: Overload, good or not? How can I replace it?
3. on bar Hero 5: Resto or Prots? Build have no prots, do you think are necessary? Most times SY, TntF and Panic do their job, only few bosses hit hard whole team.

- you are relying on paragons and splinter/death nova to do dmg. Other than deep wounds the dmg is mediocre at best

- No ineptitude mesmer. Melee is going to tear you appart in hard mode (vanquishing doesnt count)

- No Prot spirit, i would invite you to take on a few of those roaring others in HM, see how long your party lasts. In case you didn't get it yet, any kind of armor ignoring dmg will decimate your time.

- The main form of dmg mitigation comes from you, the player, and because its so dependent on you gaining adrenaline any kind of shut down or you will reduce your ability to gain adrenaline, and hence the team will suffer the consequences. In addition, any kind of enemy collapse on you will result in your swift death due to lack of (again) prots. and Sy does not prot you

- Resto skills on MM while curses on the SoS? swap them around bro.

- Run proper HB monks and take out healing burst, you have limited healing as it is.

outlaw161 · Apr 21, 2011, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Hunter your wrong.
I love khomet paragons they are awsome,i just dont like the expel hex para...
I usually change him to a Mes with Intp or Spirt spammer with ST shelter and other spirits
Change the MM to prots Aegis Prot spirit and Soa,just cus SY doesnt prot you
Honestly i think that 2 volley paras should be enough,change the expel hex to whatever hero you think will fit the team...Mes Inpt with hex removel Nec with orders (and switch the sos to bit heals) Rt with spirits ST Dwana order Emo prot.

Elfblade · Apr 21, 2011, 01:32 PM // 13:32

You can survive lots of high end Hm withouT ineptitude as long as you aggro properly and prot.

I would add prot spirit somewhere for higher end area's

Hunter i am not sure he wants to be able to clear for example DOA Hm or slavers Hm though i think the build will survive the duncan LVL summits group with some adjustments.